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| aker:collected_works:cw5 [2016/01/31 03:12] – [Part ONE] janus | collected_works:cw5 [2017/02/14 04:18] – ↷ Page moved from aker:collected_works:cw5 to collected_works:cw5 janus |
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| §32 We were speaking of the ontogenetic recapitulation of phylogenetic psychology in children, and we saw that archaic thinking is a peculiarity of children and primitives. We now know that this same thinking also occupies a large place in modern man and appears as soon as directed thinking ceases. Any lessening of interest, or the slightest fatigue, is enough to put an end to the delicate psychological adaptation to reality which is expressed through directed thinking, and to replace it by fantasies. We wander from the subject and let our thoughts go their own way; if the slackening of attention continues, we gradually lose all sense of the present, and fantasy gains the upper hand."\\ | §32 We were speaking of the ontogenetic recapitulation of phylogenetic psychology in children, and we saw that archaic thinking is a peculiarity of children and primitives. We now know that this same thinking also occupies a large place in modern man and appears as soon as directed thinking ceases. Any lessening of interest, or the slightest fatigue, is enough to put an end to the delicate psychological adaptation to reality which is expressed through directed thinking, and to replace it by fantasies. We wander from the subject and let our thoughts go their own way; if the slackening of attention continues, we gradually lose all sense of the present, and fantasy gains the upper hand."\\ |
| §33 "At this point the important question arises: How are fantasies made, and what is their nature? ... All seek compensation through fantasy."\\ | §33 "At this point the important question arises: How are fantasies made, and what is their nature? ... All seek compensation through fantasy."\\ |
| §34 "But just where do the fantasies get their material? ... With a normal child the fantasy stops short at the fleeting idea, which is soon over and forgotten. There was a time, however, in the ancient world, when the fantasy was a legitimate truth that enjoyed universal recognition." <fc green>Perhaps, but in ancient times, these fantasies were accepted as truths by adults, not just children - so what has changed? Much of this discussion ties in to Kerényi's essay "The Primordial Child" in //[[aker:books_and_literature:essays_on_a_science_of_mythology|Essays on a Science of Mythology]]// and in particular the prologue to the essay where Károly (Carl, Karl) Kerényi discusses mythology. Jung references this article in footnote 35, page 26.\\ This idea of mythology and how important it is is a very valuable question. I think it is very important, for a number of reasons:\\ I do not think we can re-create or again produce myths as were done in ancient times. We know too much. I think of the comment by Jung about religion: </fc> | §34 "But just where do the fantasies get their material? ... With a normal child the fantasy stops short at the fleeting idea, which is soon over and forgotten. There was a time, however, in the ancient world, when the fantasy was a legitimate truth that enjoyed universal recognition." <fc green>Perhaps, but in ancient times, these fantasies were accepted as truths by adults, not just children - so what has changed? Much of this discussion ties in to Kerényi's essay "The Primordial Child" in //[[books_and_literature:essays_on_a_science_of_mythology|Essays on a Science of Mythology]]// and in particular the prologue to the essay where Károly (Carl, Karl) Kerényi discusses mythology. Jung references this article in footnote 35, page 26.\\ This idea of mythology and how important it is is a very valuable question. I think it is very important, for a number of reasons:\\ I do not think we can re-create or again produce myths as were done in ancient times. We know too much. I think of the comment by Jung about religion: </fc> |
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| ~~SEARCHPATTERN#'/(.*§396\s*([^\n\r]+).*)/i'?? +aker:collected_works:cw13 _sprender $quote ??~~ | ~~SEARCHPATTERN#'/(.*§396\s*([^\n\r]+).*)/i'?? +aker:collected_works:cw13 _sprender $quote ??~~ |
| §165 "The forces of nature are always two-faced ..." <fc green>(Beneficent and destroying)</fc> | §165 "The forces of nature are always two-faced ..." <fc green>(Beneficent and destroying)</fc> |
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| [[MalPaper1|Λ]] <fc green>The moth and the **//sun//** is what Jung was discussing previously from the title of Miss Miller' poem, and now he brings in the with the moth and the **//flame//**. The latter part of this paragraph has some interesting points related to the two sides of nature and the two sides of fate;</fc>\\ §165 ""The Moth and the Flame" could easily have the hackneyed meaning of lying round the flame of passion until one's wings are burned. This passionate longing has two sides: it is the power which beautifies everything, but, in a different set of circumstances, is quite as likely to destroy everything. ... All passion is a challenge to fate ... Fear of fate is a very understandable phenomenon, for it <fc green>(fate)</fc> is incalculable, immeasurable, full of unknown dangers. The perpetual hesitation of the neurotic to launch out into life is readily explained by his desire to stand aside so as not to get involved in the dangerous struggle for existence. But anyone who refuses to experience life must stifle his desire to live - in other words, he must commit partial suicide. This explains the death-fantasies that usually accompany the renunciation of desire." | [[aker:collected_works:malpaper1|Λ]] <fc green>The moth and the **//sun//** is what Jung was discussing previously from the title of Miss Miller' poem, and now he brings in the with the moth and the **//flame//**. The latter part of this paragraph has some interesting points related to the two sides of nature and the two sides of fate;</fc>\\ §165 ""The Moth and the Flame" could easily have the hackneyed meaning of lying round the flame of passion until one's wings are burned. This passionate longing has two sides: it is the power which beautifies everything, but, in a different set of circumstances, is quite as likely to destroy everything. ... All passion is a challenge to fate ... Fear of fate is a very understandable phenomenon, for it <fc green>(fate)</fc> is incalculable, immeasurable, full of unknown dangers. The perpetual hesitation of the neurotic to launch out into life is readily explained by his desire to stand aside so as not to get involved in the dangerous struggle for existence. But anyone who refuses to experience life must stifle his desire to live - in other words, he must commit partial suicide. This explains the death-fantasies that usually accompany the renunciation of desire." |
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| <fc green>This makes me think of Faust, when he meets Want, Blame, Need & Care...</fc> | <fc green>This makes me think of Faust, when he meets Want, Blame, Need & Care...</fc> |
| [[malefic:igap:Neurosis|Ν]] §200 "This brings us back to our hypothesis that it is not the sexual instinct, but a kind of neutral energy, ..." \\ <fc green>This is interesting...</fc>\\ "The fact that an archaic world of fantasy takes the place of reality in schizophrenia proves nothing about the nature of the reality function as such; it only demonstrates the well-known biological fact that whenever a more recent system suffers deterioration it is likely to be replace by a more primitive and therefore obsolete one." ... "We find this principle in the theory of neurosis which holds that any failure of adaptation is compensated by an older one, that is, by a regressive reactivation of the parental imagos. In neurosis the substitute product is a fantasy of individual origin and scope with hardly a trace of those archaic features which are characteristic of the fantasies of schizophrenia. Again, in neurosis there is never an actual loss of reality, only a falsification of it. In schizophrenia, on the other hand, reality has all but disappeared." | [[malefic:igap:Neurosis|Ν]] §200 "This brings us back to our hypothesis that it is not the sexual instinct, but a kind of neutral energy, ..." \\ <fc green>This is interesting...</fc>\\ "The fact that an archaic world of fantasy takes the place of reality in schizophrenia proves nothing about the nature of the reality function as such; it only demonstrates the well-known biological fact that whenever a more recent system suffers deterioration it is likely to be replace by a more primitive and therefore obsolete one." ... "We find this principle in the theory of neurosis which holds that any failure of adaptation is compensated by an older one, that is, by a regressive reactivation of the parental imagos. In neurosis the substitute product is a fantasy of individual origin and scope with hardly a trace of those archaic features which are characteristic of the fantasies of schizophrenia. Again, in neurosis there is never an actual loss of reality, only a falsification of it. In schizophrenia, on the other hand, reality has all but disappeared." |
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| <fc green>An interesting comment here linking to the idea of having power by knowing somethings name. Cf. §274.\\ Its mentioned here in the context of the reality function being replaced by archaic ideas which may well have been reality at some point but, as Jung points out, the ideas were symbols that sought to give expression...so appropriate for their time, not being - what I think can only be said to be - misused, so to speak, by replacing an existing reality. This raises the question as to whether we can 'go back' and also relates to Myth...can we really appreciate or live Myth once again? This paragraph 201 would suggest not I think. Cf this too with the prologue written by Kerényi in [[aker:books_and_literature:essays_on_a_science_of_mythology|Essays on a science of mythology]].</fc>\\ §201 "Functionally, the concept corresponds to the //magically powerful name// which gets a grip on the object. This not only renders the object harmless, but incorporates it into the psychic system, thus increasing the meaning and power of the human mind." | <fc green>An interesting comment here linking to the idea of having power by knowing somethings name. Cf. §274.\\ Its mentioned here in the context of the reality function being replaced by archaic ideas which may well have been reality at some point but, as Jung points out, the ideas were symbols that sought to give expression...so appropriate for their time, not being - what I think can only be said to be - misused, so to speak, by replacing an existing reality. This raises the question as to whether we can 'go back' and also relates to Myth...can we really appreciate or live Myth once again? This paragraph 201 would suggest not I think. Cf this too with the prologue written by Kerényi in [[books_and_literature:essays_on_a_science_of_mythology|Essays on a science of mythology]].</fc>\\ §201 "Functionally, the concept corresponds to the //magically powerful name// which gets a grip on the object. This not only renders the object harmless, but incorporates it into the psychic system, thus increasing the meaning and power of the human mind." |
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| <fc green>I really like this quote Jung takes from Spielrein that requires a little thought but is very worthwhile pondering : </fc> | <fc green>I really like this quote Jung takes from Spielrein that requires a little thought but is very worthwhile pondering : </fc> |
| §205 "...schizophrenia. The peculiarity of this disease lies in the startling emergence of an archaic psychology." <fc green>Cf. this with §200 above.</fc> "...and what we take to be original and individual creations are mostly products which can only be compared with those of antiquity. We have to apply this criterion to probably all the products of this remarkable illness..." | §205 "...schizophrenia. The peculiarity of this disease lies in the startling emergence of an archaic psychology." <fc green>Cf. this with §200 above.</fc> "...and what we take to be original and individual creations are mostly products which can only be compared with those of antiquity. We have to apply this criterion to probably all the products of this remarkable illness..." |
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| §206 "We know that in infants the libido first manifests itself exclusively in the nutritional zone ... With the growth of the individual and development of his organs the libido creates for itself new avenues of activity. The primary model of rhythmic movement, producing pleasure and satisfaction, is transferred to the zone of other functions, with sexuality as its ultimate goal." <fc green>Although I can see the credibility in these ideas I feel a bit like Jung was noting down a satisfactory path of explanation as he heads towards his point and that this feels a bit like conjecture.\\ Cf this with Von Franz [[aker:books_and_literature:the_feminine_in_fairytales#the_motif_of_nodding_or_mechanical_back_and_forth|The Feminine in Fairytales]] where she talks of repetitive 'nodding' or metronomic movement. I don't think this is what Jung is talking about at all...but worth the Cf.\\ Jung continues in this paragraph to overview the unfolding of rhythmic movement as we develop as one of two distinct phases, the other being sucking, that too moves from being nutritional to a rhythmic event towards sexuality. There seems to be a natural flow of libido from the nutritional to the sexual, and perhaps even a carry over from the former to the latter.</fc>\\ "I therefore propose to call the period from birth up to the time of the first clear manifestations of sexuality the "pre-sexual stage." As a rule it falls between the first and the fourth year, ... Certain regressions go right back to the pre-sexual stage ..." <fc green>(i.e. regression to nutritional motif's)</fc> | §206 "We know that in infants the libido first manifests itself exclusively in the nutritional zone ... With the growth of the individual and development of his organs the libido creates for itself new avenues of activity. The primary model of rhythmic movement, producing pleasure and satisfaction, is transferred to the zone of other functions, with sexuality as its ultimate goal." <fc green>Although I can see the credibility in these ideas I feel a bit like Jung was noting down a satisfactory path of explanation as he heads towards his point and that this feels a bit like conjecture.\\ Cf this with Von Franz [[books_and_literature:the_feminine_in_fairytales#the_motif_of_nodding_or_mechanical_back_and_forth|The Feminine in Fairytales]] where she talks of repetitive 'nodding' or metronomic movement. I don't think this is what Jung is talking about at all...but worth the Cf.\\ Jung continues in this paragraph to overview the unfolding of rhythmic movement as we develop as one of two distinct phases, the other being sucking, that too moves from being nutritional to a rhythmic event towards sexuality. There seems to be a natural flow of libido from the nutritional to the sexual, and perhaps even a carry over from the former to the latter.</fc>\\ "I therefore propose to call the period from birth up to the time of the first clear manifestations of sexuality the "pre-sexual stage." As a rule it falls between the first and the fourth year, ... Certain regressions go right back to the pre-sexual stage ..." <fc green>(i.e. regression to nutritional motif's)</fc> |
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| §207 "If this assumption is correct, it is very likely that in earlier stages of human development this way of transformation was not just a pathological symptom, but a frequent and normal occurrence. It would therefore be interesting to see whether it has left any historical traces." <fc green>...and so it begins...</fc> | §207 "If this assumption is correct, it is very likely that in earlier stages of human development this way of transformation was not just a pathological symptom, but a frequent and normal occurrence. It would therefore be interesting to see whether it has left any historical traces." <fc green>...and so it begins...</fc> |
| §569 "The mother apparently possesses the libido of son (the treasure she guards <fc green>(talking about the terrible mother dragon Fafnir in this context I think)</fc> so jealously), and this is in fact true so long as the son remains unconscious of himself. In psychological terms this means that the "treasure hard to attain" lies hidden in the mother-imago, i.e., in the unconscious." | §569 "The mother apparently possesses the libido of son (the treasure she guards <fc green>(talking about the terrible mother dragon Fafnir in this context I think)</fc> so jealously), and this is in fact true so long as the son remains unconscious of himself. In psychological terms this means that the "treasure hard to attain" lies hidden in the mother-imago, i.e., in the unconscious." |
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| <fc green>I don't know why but thought I'd note the quote from [[wp>Pausanias (geographer)|Pausanias]] in §570 that Jung references here. Pausanias mentions a temenos dedicated to Gaia. "Here the ground is torn open ...", gifts are cast in to the fissure and water flows from the fissure. This made me think of [[aker:books_and_literature:essays_on_a_science_of_mythology|Essays on a science of mythology]] and the descriptions about how cities were founded and holes were dug at the center of a city before founding the city. </fc> | <fc green>I don't know why but thought I'd note the quote from [[wp>Pausanias (geographer)|Pausanias]] in §570 that Jung references here. Pausanias mentions a temenos dedicated to Gaia. "Here the ground is torn open ...", gifts are cast in to the fissure and water flows from the fissure. This made me think of [[books_and_literature:essays_on_a_science_of_mythology|Essays on a science of mythology]] and the descriptions about how cities were founded and holes were dug at the center of a city before founding the city. </fc> |
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| §571 "The Deluge is simply the counterpart of the all-vivifying and all-producing water, of "the ocean, which is the origin of all things."<fc red><sup>120</sup></fc>"\\ <fc red><sup>120</sup></fc><sub>Iliad, CIV, 246.</sub>\\ | §571 "The Deluge is simply the counterpart of the all-vivifying and all-producing water, of "the ocean, which is the origin of all things."<fc red><sup>120</sup></fc>"\\ <fc red><sup>120</sup></fc><sub>Iliad, CIV, 246.</sub>\\ |